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A Search for Emptiness: An Interview with Jonathan Harvey

2006; Perspectives of New Music; Volume: 44; Issue: 2 Linguagem: Inglês

10.1353/pnm.2006.0019

2325-7180

Matthew Jenkins, Jonathan Harvey,

Theology and Philosophy of Evil

A Search for Emptiness: An Interview with Jonathan Harvey I *? *?* 1 Matthew Jenkins Tffls interview tookplace throughout theafternoon of July 24, 2005 at Jonathan Harvey's house inLewes, United Kingdom. Matthew Jenkins (MJ): When did you first encounter Buddhism? Did it have a large initial impact? Jonathan Harvey (JH): I came to Christian mysticism strongly in about 1960. Perhaps 1959. When Iwas studying that therewere many ref erences to Buddhism and oriental philosophy. I began to read about Buddhism at that time. However, I became more interested in Indian meditation techniques, which were concrete and practical. Although there were still interests in Buddhist literature, philoso phy, and art, there was something a littie too abstract, austere, or A Search forEmptiness 221 too distant from God about Zen. Itwas only later that I began to get close to Buddhism. That was about ten or twelve years ago. I can point to awork likeForms ofEmptiness. It is a choral work from 1986 based on theHeart Sutra quoted in Sanskrit. It is entirely a Buddhist work. I used a lot of Christian texts before that. It has been a steady growth, but I really started practicing about ten years ago. Then I didn't mind that therewasn't any emphasis on God anymore. I always felt before that I had to have a figure or fig ures that were supernatural inmy pantheon. That helped me to relate, because I am a kind of Bhakti person, someone who thrives on the idea of devotion. That involves a human metaphor?a meta phor of human love.Without a figure to interactwith I couldn't grasp the characteristic ofwarmth in thismetaphysical strand. I find in Tibetan Buddhism that all of the deities come back in a very baroque, colorful and strange way. However, they're in a sense all empty just like every thing else is.The Tibetans have a different rela tionship to these other beings. MJ: How has your relationship with Buddhism changed your relation shipwith Christianity and mysticism? JH: In one important respect it has made me look more deeply into Christianity and its Indian roots. A fair amount is being written these days, but when Iwas young I don't think it was written about at all. For instance, the discovery of the Dead Sea scrolls and the Nag Hamardi manuscripts has revealed all of these suppressed gospels and writings: the gospel of Thomas and the secret letter of John, for example. These texts show an obvious relationship with quasi-Buddhist teachers. Many people now suggest that Jesus had contact in those forgotten years of his life with those kinds of teach ers.Whether he actually traveled south to India or they traveled to his area is uncertain, but it seems absolutely clear that there is an entrance there. I findmyself going more towards the Jesuswithin you rather than the Jesus out there of St. John's gospel. It isdifferent from the other three gospels. Itwas a thing of John's tomake Jesus into a divinity. I realize that is a rather one-sided way of looking at Christianity and what the church teaches now. There is another way to look at it. I don't know who's right, but I know which I prefer. I prefer the Gnostic version of Jesus.His relationship with Buddhism is rather beautiful, close, and full of a kind of mystical light. That iswhat appeals to me very much. 222 PerspectivesofNew Music MJ: Do you practice meditation? JH: Yes. MJ: How long have you done so? JH: About ten years. I practiced Hindu, or Vedic, meditation for about twenty years. That iswhen I started daily practice. I just changed fromVedic to Buddhist, but at least I got into the habit ofmeditat ing. I think it is important. It doesn't do to just read or think about it.Does it? MJ: It isnot the same. JH: It isnot a philosophy to be intellectualized about, but one to be lived. MJ: Which schools of thought speak to you more closely?Why? JH: Tibetan. The New Kadampa tradition1 is the one that I follow, but all Tibetan traditions speak tome closely. They're similar actually. It just...